Found these, and they are super thick. Almost tights I think, not to familiar with the specifics honestly of pantyhose. These though are red and when stretch to the max they barely even seem lighter then the deep red that they are. I put them on 1 foot at a time, tight hard to put on a little bit, stretch pull etc. They seem to be my perfect size. No extra nylon around the waist. Don't thin I had a pair this perfect line up to my body height cause im short. I put them on show them off, the round crotch wont sit right I have to correct the ass line and give a bit of a tease.